danalynnandthecallofadventure:

Guy that (supposedly) worked on a mobile game said they’d first tried not to use sex appeal. Tried some inoffensive DLC & got lukewarm response. Then they caved & tried selling things that “sexed up” the game. Supposedly they gained more male gamers (& their revenue) than they lost from girls leaving. QUESTION: Are there good visual examples of warrior women that are genuinely sexy (to teens into girls, theoretically) without being demeaning? Can we have “sex appeal” revenue w.out offensiveness?

bikiniarmorbattledamage:

The problem with crediting “sexing up” the game with increase in sales is that it assumes sex was the only avenue of generating interest – a theory that doesn’t hold up when you consider that some of the biggest selling game types (flight simulators, first person shooters, side scrolling platformers) often don’t include any sexual angle at all.

Back in 1970, Marvel comics experimented with putting Conan the Barbarian in comic format.  After the first few issues sales began to decline and the writer, Roy Thomas (who loved Conan), went to Stan Lee (who was indifferent to Conan) for advice.  Stan looked at the covers and the sales, and told them to shift away from putting animals on the covers and instead use more humanoid monsters.

They followed Stan’s advice: Sales went up again and the comic continued for twenty-three years.  However you don’t see many people campaigning that “Humanoid monsters sell!“ then trying to fit them into all marketing regardless of product or target market.  (And sex obviously wasn’t selling Conan, they had bikini damsels after all)

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Conan the Barbarian, in his loincloth and flexing his muscles, looked like a poor man’s Tarzan (which had been the popular comic fifty years ago) when battling animals – but when battling humanoid monsters he looked like a more mature fantasy narrative that was new and unique in comics at the time.

The only narrative that sexing/male gazing up a game really provides is “This game is made to cater to the fantasy of straight men.” So if swapping out your old narrative for this one increases interest and sales dramatically – then your old narrative must have been pretty boring.

There have been numerous warrior women in video games over the years.  Most of them have been under marketed, relegated to sidelines, ignored or otherwise mishandled due to general fear that they weren’t meeting the “make straight men feel important” factor that modern markets cling to as their sacred idol.

It’s actually not that difficult for creators to make female characters who are sexually attractive without going into bikini armor or other exploitative tropes.  I mean, if you give a woman agency, ability and personality – odds are good people will find it sexy.

Essentially the problem is that the gaming industry, and many other mediums, are reluctant to take the risk of incorporating different perspectives and different priorities over “games to reassure straight white men that they’re straight and awesome”.

– wincenworks

Bringing this back this Thursday because the most important conversations to have in character design and critique thereof are not “is it sexy” or “what’s wrong with sex” but:

  • What is the design really selling?
  • Why should the audience be interested?
  • How does it fit in with the other designs?
  • How does it fit into media as a whole?

Unfortunately David Gaider has since removed his blog, but his rather excellent talk on sex and video games is still available in GDC Vault and still covers important points about perspective and privilege.

Even if you’re a soulless corporation making products purely for profit and only interested in sales – it’s worth it to consider all these points.  After all, you do want your audience to like your product and to cut through the noise of what everyone else is doing.

– wincenworks

Spin Angels a comic about secret agents working the Vatican… who apparently have updated their dress code to include mandatory bared bellies.  Initially it was published by Marvel and now is being republished by Delcourt (a major publisher in France).

They may choose a different cover, but by the fourth issue Marvel’s “progression” of desperately attention seeking cover art reached a stage where it doesn’t even really fit on Bikini Armor Battle Damage anymore…

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Spoiler: This didn’t save the comic.

– wincenworks

(edit: We have been informed it was originally published by a different French publisher, Soleil, under a different title in French. Apparently there is no end to the optimism that somehow this marketing strategy will work this time. h/t: Haplo)

I swear this is a real title from the early 90s. Metal and Lace: The Battle of the Robo BabesPossibly the creepiest thing to be shown in any fighting video game.It's 2053. You're about to touch down on a remote island known for its beautiful women and its blood sport - RoboFighting.Totally not Chun Li with robot rabbit ears.  Honest.All however are eager to wager their lives for the chance to battle Robo Babes.  The odors of burnt flesh and charred metal fill the air with a thick toxic stench.I feel it's really confusing message to make your fighting robots able to transform into sexy babes.   Imagine how many people get confused and order them the wrong reasons.You have shelled out a lot of cash to get here. For what? Sleek bodies and bare skin? No, you've come here to test your skill against the best warriors the island has to offer:Graphics wise this is pretty much par for the genre and the era... though I'm kind of amazed they didn't try to fill the background with bikini babes.I really can't help but feel this was some act of not so subtle rebellion by the development team...

bikiniarmorbattledamage:

Throughout the 90s there were plenty of people trying to capitalize on the popularity of good 2D fighting games like Street Fighter 2 – Metal and Lace: Robofighters is one that tried to get an edge via the sex sells angle (A Californian actually invested a lot of work expanding the original production from Japan and giving it that charming back story).

Now, while it looks like this should be a porn game and the publishers did eventually import and localize some porn games – the default release of this was supposedly suitable for all ages (you had to pay for a patch/expansion disc if you wanted to see naughty bits).

Sadly, the fact that this game was all but forgotten and it seems not even the developers could take it seriously has not deterred modern day developers from thinking if they crank the sexy appeal up to 11 out of 10 they’ll rule the market.

– wincenworks

(Captions are added to the images to help with the scrolling text… and for extra snark)

Bringing this back for Throwback Thursday because it seems time to cover that using sex to sell your fighting game has never worked.

It didn’t work in the 90s when games came on floppy discs and it hasn’t gotten better results from using video capture either.

When people sit down to play a fighting game they want to fight, not fap.

– wincenworks

isadora-the-explorer

replied to your photo

“Wait.. this is from the same game as this!? Dammit creepy marketing…”

I’m confused.. what is bad about this?
And in your other post about this you seemingly mock women/men who do work in Cabaret “I’m sure it’s just a co-incidence that all the others got actual occupations” like what.. are you even saying here.

Femme fatale != cabaret performer. Femme fatale is not an occupation. Femme fatale is a trope based in the fear that every beautiful and flirtatious woman is secretly planning to seduce you so that she can destroy you and take your stuff.  It is insulting to cabaret performers and female performers in general to reduce them all down to such a thing.

Cabaret Hostess, Showgirl, Cigarette Girl, Barmaid, Musician, Can-Can Dancer, Stand Up Comedian, Waitress, Lounge Singer, Magician’s Assistant, Stage Kitten, – these are all jobs linked to cabaret that a woman might have.  Standing on stage in a sexy outfit while one guy looks on is not any of these jobs or any other job.

Imagine they introduce the quartet like this:

A beefcake bad boy, smouldering loner, charming show off and a cabaret hostess.

Also imagine she’s dressed in similarly practical clothes instead of a fragile costume with high heels (x)

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Now ask yourself: Why did she have to have a “sexy” job in the first place? Seriously, why can’t she be say? A mechanic like Grace Wagner was?

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From the start of the 1920s to the end of the 1940s (The Golden Age of Burlesque) was a really interesting time for changes in roles for women in America and many other nations? Why would you want to only (badly) remember (and misrepresent) the showgirls?

I mean, look at the line up from the franchise that started the four survivors vs zombies games.  Look at Zoey (college student and horror movie junkie) and Rochelle (assistant tv producer and Depeche Mode fan):

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Video games and media in general need to get out of this habit of making sure they put in at least one “every man” character, then some additional options for men and limit the inclusion of women to “the sexy lady” with no further consideration. There is nothing wrong with sexy ladies or ladies who make a profession out of being sexy – there is a huge problem with creators choosing to represent women only as such regardless of suitability.

– wincenworks